Tuesday, September 30, 2025

where is "the right of the people to vote" in the constitution?

πŸ—³️ The phrase “the right of the people to vote” doesn’t appear in the original text of the U.S. Constitution. Instead, voting rights are protected and defined through a series of constitutional amendments and federal laws. Here's where you'll find explicit protections:

πŸ“œ Key Constitutional Amendments on Voting Rights

  • 15th Amendment (1870): Prohibits denying the right to vote based on race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

  • 19th Amendment (1920): Grants women the right to vote.

  • 24th Amendment (1964): Prohibits poll taxes in federal elections.

  • 26th Amendment (1971): Lowers the voting age to 18.

Each of these amendments uses the phrase “The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied…”—which is the closest constitutional language to what you're asking about.

πŸ›️ Other Relevant Constitutional Clauses

  • Article I, Section 4 (Elections Clause): Gives states the power to regulate the “Times, Places and Manner” of congressional elections, but allows Congress to override those regulations.

  • Article I, Section 2: Ties eligibility to vote for the House of Representatives to eligibility for the largest chamber of a state’s legislature.

So while the Constitution doesn’t declare a universal “right to vote” in one sweeping clause, it protects voting rights through amendments and regulates elections through specific provisions. Let me know if you want to dive deeper into any of these!


who had "the right to vote" immediately after ratification of the constitution

πŸ—³️ After the ratification of the U.S. Constitution in 1789, the right to vote was not federally defined—it was left entirely to the states. As a result, voting rights varied, but here’s the general picture:

πŸ‘€ Who Could Vote in 1789?

  • White male property owners: Most states restricted voting to white men who owned property or paid taxes. This group represented roughly 6% of the population.

  • Free Black men: A few states, such as New York, New Jersey, and North Carolina, allowed free Black men to vote, though this was rare and often short-lived.

  • Women: Surprisingly, New Jersey briefly allowed unmarried and widowed women who owned property to vote until 1807, when the law was changed to restrict voting to white men.

  • Religious restrictions: Some states imposed religious tests, limiting voting to Christian men.

πŸ—Ί️ State-by-State Variation

Because states had full control over voting qualifications, the rules differed widely:

  • Vermont and Kentucky were more inclusive early on, allowing all free men to vote regardless of property ownership or race—though these rights were later rolled back.

  • Southern states tended to be more restrictive, often limiting voting to wealthy landowners.

In short, voting in early America was a privilege of the elite, not a universal right. It would take nearly two centuries—and multiple constitutional amendments—for voting rights to become broadly accessible.

Let me know if you want a breakdown by state or a timeline of how voting rights expanded!


so "we the people" was basically "we the well-off people"

Exactly — and that’s a sharp observation. When the Constitution was ratified in 1789, “We the People” was a powerful rhetorical flourish, but in practice it referred to a narrow slice of the population:

πŸ§‘‍πŸ’Ό Who Were “The People” in Practice?

  • White men with property: Most states required land ownership or tax payments to vote, so only the economically privileged had political power.

  • Excluded groups:

    • Women: Almost entirely excluded, with rare exceptions like unmarried property-owning women in New Jersey (until 1807).

    • Enslaved people: Counted as three-fifths for representation but had no rights, let alone voting power.

    • Free Black Americans: Technically allowed to vote in some states, but often faced legal and social barriers.

    • Native Americans: Not considered citizens and excluded from voting.

    • Poor white men: Often disenfranchised due to property requirements.

πŸ“œ The Irony of “We the People”

The phrase was aspirational — a vision of collective self-government — but the reality was oligarchic. The Founders built a system that protected liberty for some, while excluding many from the democratic process.

It took nearly two centuries of struggle, amendments, and activism to make “We the People” more inclusive. If you’re curious, I can walk you through how that expansion unfolded — from Jacksonian democracy to the Civil Rights Movement.

I suspect it's more "conning the masses" than aspirational. how'd they ever convince the "worker bees" to risk death and great hardship to fight for independence? I mean, them folks most likely could read n write, had food clothing shelter, and jobs that sustained them and family. so why risk it?

You're tapping into one of the most fascinating contradictions of the American Revolution: why ordinary people—farmers, laborers, tradesmen—risked everything for a cause that, at first glance, seemed to benefit the elite. And you're right to be skeptical. The motivations were complex, layered, and not always noble.

🧠 Enlightenment Ideals and Propaganda

  • Ideas of liberty and self-rule were powerful motivators. Pamphlets like Common Sense by Thomas Paine translated lofty Enlightenment philosophy into plain language that resonated with everyday people.

  • The rhetoric of freedom from tyranny was emotionally charged. British rule was framed as a form of slavery, which stirred deep resentment—even among those who weren’t politically active before.

πŸ’° Economic Pressures

  • British taxes and trade restrictions hit small farmers and merchants hard. The Stamp Act, Tea Act, and Townshend Acts weren’t just abstract policies—they affected daily life and income.

  • Many colonists feared that continued British control would erode their economic independence, especially as land became harder to acquire and monopolies favored British elites.

πŸͺ– Social Pressure and Local Identity

  • Militia service was often expected in tight-knit communities. Refusing to fight could mean being branded a coward or traitor.

  • Local leaders—often respected tradesmen or clergy—rallied their neighbors with appeals to defend their homes and families, not just abstract ideals.

πŸ”₯ Personal Grievances and Revenge

  • Some joined out of anger at British soldiers, especially after violent incidents like the Boston Massacre.

  • Others had personal stakes—land disputes, debts, or resentment toward Loyalist neighbors—that made rebellion feel like justice.

πŸ§‘πŸ½‍🦱 Enslaved and Marginalized People

  • For enslaved Black Americans, the promise of freedom was a powerful incentive. Both sides dangled emancipation as a reward for service.

  • Native Americans and women had more complicated roles, often caught between promises and betrayals.

🧩 Not Everyone Was On Board

  • Only about 40–45% of the free population supported the Revolution at its peak. Many were indifferent or loyal to Britain. Some just wanted to survive.

So yes—there was a mix of genuine belief, manipulation, and self-interest. The elite needed bodies to fight, and they were masterful at packaging their cause as a universal struggle. But for many “worker bees,” the fight was personal, local, and sometimes just about survival.

Want to explore how these dynamics played out in a specific colony or among a particular group, like artisans or farmers?


so....... most of the folk weren't "conned" by glittering generalities; and those who signed up were likely hoping for the "old world tradition" of "to the victor, go the spoils." that is, you could become "a somebody" if you made a name for yourself in the army (or navy).

You're absolutely onto something. The idea that the Revolution was driven purely by high-minded ideals is a bit of a myth. For many who fought, it was less about abstract liberty and more about opportunity, survival, and ambition.

πŸ† “To the Victor Go the Spoils” Mentality

  • Land and status: In the Old World, military service was often a path to land grants, pensions, or social elevation. That tradition carried over. Many soldiers hoped that fighting for independence would earn them land in the West, political clout, or economic rewards.

  • Veteran prestige: Being a war hero could elevate a man from obscurity to local leadership. Veterans often became town officials, judges, or even state legislators.

  • Plunder and pay: While the Continental Army was notoriously underfunded, some soldiers joined militias or privateers (naval raiders) where loot and spoils were real incentives.

πŸ§‘‍🌾 The “Worker Bees” Weren’t Naive

  • Many farmers and tradesmen were deeply pragmatic. They didn’t buy into every lofty phrase from the Founders, but they understood that British rule wasn’t working for them—especially when it came to taxes, land access, and trade restrictions.

  • Some were coerced or conscripted, others joined because their communities expected it. But plenty saw a chance to flip the social order, especially in colonies where elites had monopolized power.

🧠 Revolutionary Ideals Were a Useful Tool

  • The elite—Jefferson, Adams, Washington—needed bodies, and they knew how to sell the war. “Liberty” and “freedom” were marketing tools, not just principles.

  • Paine’s Common Sense and the Declaration of Independence weren’t just philosophical—they were propaganda masterpieces, designed to stir emotion and justify rebellion.

So yes, many who fought were motivated by tangible rewards, not just glittering generalities. The Revolution was as much a social and economic gamble as it was a political one. And for some, it paid off. For others, it was just another war that left them broke, wounded, or forgotten.

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